Really? You see nothing potentially annoying about someone requesting three foreign canon fandoms whose titles ALL start with "Kamen Rider"?
The Air Wolf one annoyed me too, and your reasoning for it is pretty much my reasoning for this whole thing.
I didn't mean to sound judgy of requesting rare franchises - all MY requested fandoms for Yuletide were highly obscure too, just, y'know, separate ones. Even though there was one fandom I wanted above all else, I also requested two other things that had nothing to do with it but I would have still be happy to see. And the Kamen Rider request is for Candyhearts, not Yuletide, so I'm gonna be more critical there even if it's also a big exchange.
It's not actually a big problem unless the combination of fandom and request is so hard to fill that it ends up lingering as a PH and holding up the collection. And no, I wouldn't call it Bad Egg behavior either - as you said we're in the Good Egg thread - but I see it as kinda gaming the rules to *technically* stick to the minimum number of fandoms you have to request (to be guaranteed a gift) without having to stoop to requesting things outside of your one hyperfixation like the rest of us.
How inconsiderate it actually is depends a lot on the franchise and how distinct the entries actually are, and also on the general level of people's interest for that franchise. But chances are pretty high that if a potential match or PHer has zero interest in writing for one, they'll have zero interest in writing for the others, while a more diverse set of requests might have given them something to work with.
Kamen Riders are distinct, separate shows. (Decade has a little bit of crossover with past series, but it's done in a way where you don't need to have watched them to understand what's going on).
True Detective is an anthology, seasons 1 through 3 have (to the best of my knowledge) no overlap in plot or characters. You could watch one with zero knowledge of the other. All the seasons share are the broad strokes of the genre, the fine strokes of the genre as imagined by this particular series, some of the crew making them, etc.
By (for instance) Yuletide rules for anthologies, each of those seasons WOULD be eligible as separate fandoms, but requesting them as your minimum three fandoms would still feel a bit cheaty, right? They're too similar to cast a considerably wide net for matching even if they're technically separate. If someone watched season 1 of TD and hated it, is it really likely that they'll want to watch or write for season 3?
Reminder: We're talking about what makes a good egg, not what makes a bad egg. There's nothing wrong with requesting highly similar things, but if you want to be a considerate exchange participant you should probably include something that breaks the pattern at least a little bit.
Obviously this is not a hard-and-fast rule because "what counts as distinct?" is something that could be discussed to death without a clear answer.
That's the exact same argument I just spent several paragraphs addressing. TL;DR: It's completely beside the point whether you need to watch one to understand the other and I never mentioned that anywhere.
They're too similar to cast a considerably wide net for matching even if they're technically separate.
I don't think this completley applies when it comes to Kamen Rider (or Sentai shows, similarly) because they're often very different and people will be drawn to different shows for different reasons.
Yes they're technically a franchise but they're also very distinct on their own.
I'd also frown at someone asking for 3 different seasons of PreCure. Yes, they're different, but they're not different enough to make finding a punch hitter easier, which is the point of the 3 different fandoms rule.
I'm sure they can be very different just like the various shows in the MCU franchise are very different. I like some and loathe others. I get it. I'm not suggesting that all Japanese superhero tokusatsu live-action is the same substance because of superficial trappings.
But the difference is, MCU is going to be mainstream to the overall Western-skewing fic exchange fandom and Japanese media won't be. If someone's three requested fandoms were MCU's The Defenders, MCU's Jessica Jones and MCU's Iron Fist, it's the same thing but they're probably not going to be hard to find PHs for.
Similarly, someone who requests three different fairly popular Cdramas is probably going to get matched to one of the other people in the more niche but still substantial Cdrama part of fandom.
But someone who does both? Foreign canon AND the canons are reasonably similar? That's two different overlapping ways the requests are bit on the obscure side and that's where it risks getting tricky. Like I said, nothing mean about it, it's just not on my list of things ideal exchange participants would do because if everyone followed that request philosophy, exchanges would stop working. You don't see me nomming and requesting exclusively the various non-English language cartoons of my childhood, do you!
In my experience, Rider is actually pretty well represented in exchanges (obviously depends on the exchange, but I see Kamen Rider shows requested/offered pretty frequently). And while they do all stem from a similar premise, they are for the most part very different.
I'll agree that Kamen Rider probably isn't a super bad example of this. Notably, while that request did linger as PH for a bit, it also wasn't super long. But I was talking more about the principle of it.
Honestly I also wouldn't call "good egg" on someone in an exchange that required three different fandoms who requested three Marvel TV shows. Or three Les Miserables adaptations. Or three MCYT SMPs. Or three Disney Princess movies Sure they're technically distinct and it's quite likely somebody who likes one might not like some of the others - but you're still limiting your pool to people who like Marvel TV shows, or people who like Les Mis, or MCYT watchers. It's much more likely you'll be unmatchable than if you request one Marvel TV show and one MCYT and one Disney Princess.
(Honestly my ideal Good Egg request is probably two sets of two linked fandoms; that way if there's no Disney Princess people offering this time, your mod has another option, but also if you match on a Disney Princess person and they are stuck on your matched prompt they have other options. Is that in any way required or expected or will I judge if you don't? Of course not. But it's the kind of request that makes me want to be able to kudos you.)
Obscurity is separate; if an exchange isn't specifically for small fandoms, I'd honestly say someone's not a real good egg unless they request at least one that isn't super obscure. Again, no judgement if you don't but it sure opens up options for everyone else. If it's a small-fandoms-only exchange, the Good Egg thing to do is throw in at least one five-minute safety fandom. (Again! Not required or expected! But very thoughtful of you if you do it!)
> You see nothing potentially annoying about someone requesting three foreign canon fandoms whose titles ALL start with "Kamen Rider"?
As opposed to requesting three domestic canon fandoms who’s titles all start with Kamen Rider. Or Masked Rider, I suppose. *Looks at Saban’s Masked Rider*
Anyways, as someone who’s into tokusatsu, the only problem I have with toku requests in non-toku-specific exchanges is when people request the same fandoms/pairs over and over, especially when they’re not things I can write (I mean, maybe I *could* write Decade OT4 again, but whatif I don’t *want* to. And I’ve seen a lot of toku, but I haven’t seen, like, everything). And for people who want to get into toku to fill pinch hits, they’re…long (Decade is 31 episodes, but most Kamen Riders are longer, about 50 eps.) and kinda hard to find if you don’t know where to look. So providing something outside of your main franchise is appreciated, or at least mix up requests sometimes (and you can still request the 3 you always do! But come up with a 4th thing you’ll like?)
As opposed to requesting three domestic canon fandoms who’s titles all start with Kamen Rider. Or Masked Rider, I suppose. *Looks at Saban’s Masked Rider*
I was maintaining some optimism that domestic (whatever that even means, I'm speaking here as someone not from an Anglophone country who mostly hangs out in English-speaking Western-ish fandom, so...) canons are something people would be more familiar with, yeah. Bigger pool of people to go "Oh I watched that as a kid, I could probably refresh my memory and write something for it".
Really? You see nothing potentially annoying about someone requesting three foreign canon fandoms whose titles ALL start with "Kamen Rider"?
No, I don't. This feels a little ... mask-off. Foreign to whom?
I mean, yeah, this side of exchange fandom is dominated by people who only speak English, so not being able to access anglophone distribution does make things less popular... sometimes.
But I just don't see the problem. What about someone asking for a 1950s Hungarian newspaper comic, a 1990s French TV show, and a play that was performed in English in the USA in 2010 of which no recordings exist? Those are all extremely distinct. Why is that better than someone asking for three shows that just happen to come from the same production company and are marketed in a way that says "if you like X you'll like Y?"
And the Kamen Rider request is for Candyhearts, not Yuletide, so I'm gonna be more critical there even if it's also a big exchange.
No, I don't. This feels a little ... mask-off. Foreign to whom?
I'd be the last person to sing the praises of Western-centrism, but Western English-speaking fandom IS dominated by Western canons that are in English whether people like I - who are not Western or natively English-speaking - like it or not. As I said elsewhere, I would love to nominate [insert some non-English childhood classics] and nominate only those exclusively, and maybe I'd even get lucky and the request would be filled by someone who's from the same country and saw those same classics growing up. But if everyone did this, and did this every time they participated in an exchange, I suspect a LOT of people would end up unmatchable or as lingering PHs.
Those are all extremely distinct. Why is that better
I didn't say it's better. We're talking about good eggs, and part of being a good egg is (within reason) making requests that are feasible to fill. Requesting things that are highly similar to each other, requesting things that are all niche with tiny non-existent fandoms, or just requesting the same things or rarepairs time after time with no variation are all possible ways for someone's request to be harder to fill.
It also has a 300-word minimum.
I don't see how that helps. You do need in-depth canon knowledge to write longfic, sure, but that doesn't mean that writing short fic is dramatically less demanding. If anything I almost feel like the pressure for a short gift to be this stellar little nugget of a scene is higher. I'd be worried about half-assing a gift I only sorta-know the canon for, and the low-stakes, low word count format of the exchange makes it harder to justify the effort of canon review, never mind acquiring a brand new canon.
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Re: what makes a good egg to you
(Anonymous) 2024-02-08 09:27 am (UTC)(link)Really? You see nothing potentially annoying about someone requesting three foreign canon fandoms whose titles ALL start with "Kamen Rider"?
The Air Wolf one annoyed me too, and your reasoning for it is pretty much my reasoning for this whole thing.
I didn't mean to sound judgy of requesting rare franchises - all MY requested fandoms for Yuletide were highly obscure too, just, y'know, separate ones. Even though there was one fandom I wanted above all else, I also requested two other things that had nothing to do with it but I would have still be happy to see. And the Kamen Rider request is for Candyhearts, not Yuletide, so I'm gonna be more critical there even if it's also a big exchange.
It's not actually a big problem unless the combination of fandom and request is so hard to fill that it ends up lingering as a PH and holding up the collection. And no, I wouldn't call it Bad Egg behavior either - as you said we're in the Good Egg thread - but I see it as kinda gaming the rules to *technically* stick to the minimum number of fandoms you have to request (to be guaranteed a gift) without having to stoop to requesting things outside of your one hyperfixation like the rest of us.
How inconsiderate it actually is depends a lot on the franchise and how distinct the entries actually are, and also on the general level of people's interest for that franchise. But chances are pretty high that if a potential match or PHer has zero interest in writing for one, they'll have zero interest in writing for the others, while a more diverse set of requests might have given them something to work with.
Re: what makes a good egg to you
(Anonymous) 2024-02-08 11:56 am (UTC)(link)Re: what makes a good egg to you
(Anonymous) 2024-02-08 12:17 pm (UTC)(link)True Detective is an anthology, seasons 1 through 3 have (to the best of my knowledge) no overlap in plot or characters. You could watch one with zero knowledge of the other. All the seasons share are the broad strokes of the genre, the fine strokes of the genre as imagined by this particular series, some of the crew making them, etc.
By (for instance) Yuletide rules for anthologies, each of those seasons WOULD be eligible as separate fandoms, but requesting them as your minimum three fandoms would still feel a bit cheaty, right? They're too similar to cast a considerably wide net for matching even if they're technically separate. If someone watched season 1 of TD and hated it, is it really likely that they'll want to watch or write for season 3?
Reminder: We're talking about what makes a good egg, not what makes a bad egg. There's nothing wrong with requesting highly similar things, but if you want to be a considerate exchange participant you should probably include something that breaks the pattern at least a little bit.
Obviously this is not a hard-and-fast rule because "what counts as distinct?" is something that could be discussed to death without a clear answer.
Re: what makes a good egg to you
(Anonymous) 2024-02-08 12:24 pm (UTC)(link)Re: what makes a good egg to you
(Anonymous) 2024-02-08 02:00 pm (UTC)(link)That's the exact same argument I just spent several paragraphs addressing. TL;DR: It's completely beside the point whether you need to watch one to understand the other and I never mentioned that anywhere.
Re: what makes a good egg to you
(Anonymous) 2024-02-08 12:35 pm (UTC)(link)I don't think this completley applies when it comes to Kamen Rider (or Sentai shows, similarly) because they're often very different and people will be drawn to different shows for different reasons.
Yes they're technically a franchise but they're also very distinct on their own.
Re: what makes a good egg to you
(Anonymous) 2024-02-08 01:45 pm (UTC)(link)Re: what makes a good egg to you
(Anonymous) 2024-02-08 02:26 pm (UTC)(link)But the difference is, MCU is going to be mainstream to the overall Western-skewing fic exchange fandom and Japanese media won't be. If someone's three requested fandoms were MCU's The Defenders, MCU's Jessica Jones and MCU's Iron Fist, it's the same thing but they're probably not going to be hard to find PHs for.
Similarly, someone who requests three different fairly popular Cdramas is probably going to get matched to one of the other people in the more niche but still substantial Cdrama part of fandom.
But someone who does both? Foreign canon AND the canons are reasonably similar? That's two different overlapping ways the requests are bit on the obscure side and that's where it risks getting tricky. Like I said, nothing mean about it, it's just not on my list of things ideal exchange participants would do because if everyone followed that request philosophy, exchanges would stop working. You don't see me nomming and requesting exclusively the various non-English language cartoons of my childhood, do you!
Re: what makes a good egg to you
(Anonymous) 2024-02-08 02:46 pm (UTC)(link)It may be kind of niche, but not that niche.
Re: what makes a good egg to you
(Anonymous) 2024-02-08 03:07 pm (UTC)(link)Re: what makes a good egg to you
(Anonymous) 2024-02-08 08:16 pm (UTC)(link)That's what people say when they have an idea about a thing that isn't borne out by reality.
Re: what makes a good egg to you
(Anonymous) 2024-02-09 04:53 pm (UTC)(link)Re: what makes a good egg to you
(Anonymous) 2024-02-08 02:58 pm (UTC)(link)(Honestly my ideal Good Egg request is probably two sets of two linked fandoms; that way if there's no Disney Princess people offering this time, your mod has another option, but also if you match on a Disney Princess person and they are stuck on your matched prompt they have other options. Is that in any way required or expected or will I judge if you don't? Of course not. But it's the kind of request that makes me want to be able to kudos you.)
Obscurity is separate; if an exchange isn't specifically for small fandoms, I'd honestly say someone's not a real good egg unless they request at least one that isn't super obscure. Again, no judgement if you don't but it sure opens up options for everyone else. If it's a small-fandoms-only exchange, the Good Egg thing to do is throw in at least one five-minute safety fandom. (Again! Not required or expected! But very thoughtful of you if you do it!)
Re: what makes a good egg to you
(Anonymous) 2024-02-08 04:11 pm (UTC)(link)> You see nothing potentially annoying about someone requesting three foreign canon fandoms whose titles ALL start with "Kamen Rider"?
As opposed to requesting three domestic canon fandoms who’s titles all start with Kamen Rider. Or Masked Rider, I suppose. *Looks at Saban’s Masked Rider*
Anyways, as someone who’s into tokusatsu, the only problem I have with toku requests in non-toku-specific exchanges is when people request the same fandoms/pairs over and over, especially when they’re not things I can write (I mean, maybe I *could* write Decade OT4 again, but whatif I don’t *want* to. And I’ve seen a lot of toku, but I haven’t seen, like, everything). And for people who want to get into toku to fill pinch hits, they’re…long (Decade is 31 episodes, but most Kamen Riders are longer, about 50 eps.) and kinda hard to find if you don’t know where to look. So providing something outside of your main franchise is appreciated, or at least mix up requests sometimes (and you can still request the 3 you always do! But come up with a 4th thing you’ll like?)
Re: what makes a good egg to you
(Anonymous) 2024-02-08 07:50 pm (UTC)(link)I was maintaining some optimism that domestic (whatever that even means, I'm speaking here as someone not from an Anglophone country who mostly hangs out in English-speaking Western-ish fandom, so...) canons are something people would be more familiar with, yeah. Bigger pool of people to go "Oh I watched that as a kid, I could probably refresh my memory and write something for it".
Your second paragraph: Yeah, that too.
Re: what makes a good egg to you
(Anonymous) 2024-02-08 08:15 pm (UTC)(link)No, I don't. This feels a little ... mask-off. Foreign to whom?
I mean, yeah, this side of exchange fandom is dominated by people who only speak English, so not being able to access anglophone distribution does make things less popular... sometimes.
But I just don't see the problem. What about someone asking for a 1950s Hungarian newspaper comic, a 1990s French TV show, and a play that was performed in English in the USA in 2010 of which no recordings exist? Those are all extremely distinct. Why is that better than someone asking for three shows that just happen to come from the same production company and are marketed in a way that says "if you like X you'll like Y?"
And the Kamen Rider request is for Candyhearts, not Yuletide, so I'm gonna be more critical there even if it's also a big exchange.
It also has a 300-word minimum.
Re: what makes a good egg to you
(Anonymous) 2024-02-09 05:28 pm (UTC)(link)I'd be the last person to sing the praises of Western-centrism, but Western English-speaking fandom IS dominated by Western canons that are in English whether people like I - who are not Western or natively English-speaking - like it or not. As I said elsewhere, I would love to nominate [insert some non-English childhood classics] and nominate only those exclusively, and maybe I'd even get lucky and the request would be filled by someone who's from the same country and saw those same classics growing up. But if everyone did this, and did this every time they participated in an exchange, I suspect a LOT of people would end up unmatchable or as lingering PHs.
Those are all extremely distinct. Why is that better
I didn't say it's better. We're talking about good eggs, and part of being a good egg is (within reason) making requests that are feasible to fill. Requesting things that are highly similar to each other, requesting things that are all niche with tiny non-existent fandoms, or just requesting the same things or rarepairs time after time with no variation are all possible ways for someone's request to be harder to fill.
It also has a 300-word minimum.
I don't see how that helps. You do need in-depth canon knowledge to write longfic, sure, but that doesn't mean that writing short fic is dramatically less demanding. If anything I almost feel like the pressure for a short gift to be this stellar little nugget of a scene is higher. I'd be worried about half-assing a gift I only sorta-know the canon for, and the low-stakes, low word count format of the exchange makes it harder to justify the effort of canon review, never mind acquiring a brand new canon.