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Comments

Re: DNW Workshop

[(Anonymous)]

Hi, that is my DNW, and, contrary to what others are saying, I do in fact know that "pastiche" in this context means an imitation of the source's style. I simply don't like it, same as I don't like epistolary format or fan poetry, or others do 't like second-person POV. However, I know that it is very popular, particularly in lit-based fandoms. As two of my requests are for book fandoms, I thought it best to be upfront about this dislike.

Since this is a workshopping thread, any suggestions on improving my phrasing so that I can avoid confusion (let alone accusations of not knowing what basic literary terms mean) would be great.

Re: DNW Workshop

[(Anonymous)]

"I don't like fic which attempts to imitate the source's style, for example in book canons" should do you, I would think.

Re: DNW Workshop

[(Anonymous)]

*source's writing style

Re: DNW Workshop

[(Anonymous)]

What specifically are you trying to avoid?

Re: DNW Workshop

[(Anonymous)]

NA who hasn’t seen your letter and also doesn’t see anything wrong with it/understood what you meant

Can you rework it into a 3+ item list? I’m guessing the anons took it as a YES AND rather than an OR IN ADDITION TO. I guess the topics are too similar rather than “I don’t groove on death and homophobia” which they could understand. If you said “I don’t groove on pistache, non narrative fic, or poetry/noncon/the word banana/poly” or any other additional term(s) maybe that would help them?

Re: DNW Workshop

[(Anonymous)]

+1, or else split them into separate sentences. I think it's the lumping pastiche together with non-narrative that's confusing people.

Re: DNW Workshop

[(Anonymous)]

So how much imitation of author's style is too much? Because I'd try to avoid purple prose for a historical book canon, sure, but I'd be nervous about how to handle character voices.

Re: DNW Workshop

[(Anonymous)]

This. Broadly speaking, I would happily avoid aping Victor Hugo's style, but if the character voices can't be true to canon, it would be better to ask for original work.

Re: DNW Workshop

[(Anonymous)]

Just to be frank here, that DNW would scare me off. Not that I think you're wrong for having it, but I would become super anxious about where you drew the pastiche line and whether my writing style was edging too close to it. It feels like a "no OOC characters" DNW to me, in that I just wouldn't be confident that I could make you happy (even if I thought my characters were IC/my writing style wasn't pastiche).

Re: DNW Workshop

[(Anonymous)]

+1

No writing a deliberate imitation of (especially a particularly distinctive) canon style, fine, but I'd feel like I had no idea how to tell whether my general writing style happened to get too close to the style of the book.

Re: DNW Workshop

[(Anonymous)]

+1

I'd be spending way too much time worrying over anything I write being too close to the canon style for you.

Re: DNW Workshop

[(Anonymous)]

It's more like a "no IC characters" DNW. Is a "you're not allowed to let your writing feel like canon" DNW even enforceable?

Re: DNW Workshop

[(Anonymous)]

I would recommend clarifying whether you mean "DNW: fic that imitates the style or format or narrative voice of the canon" (e.g. you're requesting a Dickens novel but you don't want the writer to try to sound like Dickens), or "fic written in imitation of some other work's distinctive style/format/narrative voice" (e.g. you don't want your Ted Lasso fic written in the style of Jane Austen), or both.

Re: DNW Workshop

[(Anonymous)]

Maybe "DNW: pastiche (imitating the style of the book.)"

I don't know what your book fandoms are so maybe this is more obvious in the actual letter, but for me it would be helpful if you said what sort of style you do want if it isn't that of the canon.

When I write book canons I tend to default to the style of the book unless my recipient says not to, so this DNW is definitely good to know!

Re: DNW Workshop

[(Anonymous)]

I haven't looked at the letter, but I think I would be very confused by this DNW. My normal writing style is fairly close to the style of many of the kinds of books I offer to write for, and trying to keep the characters in-character and the setting recognizable usually means I end up leaning even more into the style of whatever canon I'm writing. How will the characters even sound like themselves if I write them in some other style?

I think you may need to be more specific about what you don't like about pastiche, or what specific narrative style you're looking to avoid, because to me this DNW feels a bit like "DNW fic that resembles the canon." For a book fandom especially, the writing style can be a big part of what the canon *is.*

Re: DNW Workshop

[(Anonymous)]

I would have the same difficulty.

I think being more specific about what you don't want in terms of canon style would be helpful. For instance, if it's Locked Tomb, maybe "I want fic written in third person POV and no memes or similar jokes," or if it's Lord of the Rings, "I want fic written in a contemporary style, not in omniscient POV, and no lengthy descriptions."

Re: DNW Workshop

[(Anonymous)]

+1

Re: DNW Workshop

[(Anonymous)]

+2

Re: DNW Workshop

[(Anonymous)]

I think this might be something that works better as a canon-specific DNW than a general. As people have mentioned up thread, if I saw DNW canon pastiche for, like, Victor Hugo or Hidden Almanac or Douglas Adams, that would be fairly clear and reasonably enforceable (I'm still not sure that mods would enforce it for something like wrote a humor fic for a humor canon, and you might be better off dnw'ing specific aspects, but at least it would be a reasonable guide for the author.) But for most modern book fandoms that don't have a super distinct style, idk how a writer would even do it. Write the characters OOC? Write a modern book fandom in Dickens style? (Plus there are fanwriters with a really distinct voice of their own. Do you just not want something that sounds like canon? Or would you also not want something super-stylized its own way?) And if you're requesting visual fandoms it makes no sense at all.

Also yeah I remember a phase in fandom when "pastiche" was used to mean "untransformative badfic" and sadly you can't dnw that no matter how you word it.

tl:Dr if this dnw is only on book fandoms with a super distinct canon style/form it's probably fine to dnw "canon pastiche", otherwise be more specific. DNW all pastiche is technically banning your writer from using any style or form which is tough.

Re: DNW Workshop

[(Anonymous)]

That's an absolute horror of a DNW for a writer to work with. It's too broad and subjective. I would default instantly.

Re: DNW Workshop

[(Anonymous)]

I'm going to go against majority opinion here and say that DNW may be completely reasonable and easy to interpret... depending on which book fandoms you nominated.

If it was Susanna Clarke and Victor Hugo I know exactly what you mean and what you don't want me to write. If it was Diana Wynne Jones and Balzac I wouldn't have a clue, and I'd have to game away from you to avoid it. So the value of this DNW is really contingent on what you're trying to apply it to.

Re: DNW Workshop

[(Anonymous)]

OK, so here is my problem with the word "pastiche." If you look it up on Wikipedia, the first paragraph under "literature" (the top section) is this (emphasis mine):

"In literature usage, the term denotes a literary technique employing a generally light-hearted tongue-in-cheek imitation of another's style; although jocular, it is usually respectful. The word implies a lack of originality or coherence, an imitative jumble, but with the advent of postmodernism pastiche has become positively constructed as deliberate, witty homage or playful imitation."

That is what I have always taken the word "pastiche" to mean. I realize that it can refer to any imitation, but when I hear the word, I think of a deliberate, joking, possibly somewhat bad imitation of an author's style. I don't interpret the word to mean simply "writing in a style that resembles another writer."

When I type "pastiche" into Google, the third question that pops up in the "People also ask" section is "Is pastiche an insult?" (The answer Google gives: The term itself is not pejorative; however, Alain de Botton describes pastiche as "an unconvincing reproduction of the styles of the past".) So it appears that a good number of people feel that the word is pejorative, even if they're technically wrong.

Seeing "DNW pastiche" in a letter would confuse me for several reasons, but I think this is the main one. Which meaning of "pastiche" do you have in mind? Are you saying you don't want a flippant, tongue-in-cheek, unconvincing imitation of the literary canons you're requesting? Or are you saying that any story written in a style resembling the original would count as a "pastiche" and thus violate your DNW?

Re: DNW Workshop

[(Anonymous)]

The question would be how much like the style of the original is too much? Like if it's in third person would the fic have to be in first or second? This sounds flippant but that's not my intention. I'd definitely be scared off. I'd go for specifics if you can, or make it a preference rather than a DNW.

Re: DNW Workshop

[(Anonymous)]

SC

Thanks to everyone who commented; I honestly never thought that my DNW would engender this much passionate response.

I originally added the DNW: pastiche because I was aware that "in the style of canon" is the dominant measure of quality for book-fandom fic, but I didn't want it. That's all. However, I now understand, thanks to all this discussion, that the expectations of writing and receiving pastiche go deeper than mere preferences. I don't want to offend or alienate fans who are committed to those fannish norms, so I've removed my offers and requests for book fandoms in this Yuletide, and if, going forward, I do other exchanges, I will not offer/request book fandoms. There's being out of step with fandom, and then there's actively disrupting it, and I'm not comfortable with this level of attention to my participation.

Re: DNW Workshop

[(Anonymous)]

To be honest I understood "pastiche" as "imitation of ANOTHER style" (like writing star wars fic in a Jeeves and Wooster style) so I think specifying would be better