CoalCeption

[coalcube]

The wank is coming from inside the house.

NYR due before you sign up for 2019 Yuletide.
Nominations: 2 October (time tba) to 11 October, 9am UTC
Sign-ups: 27 October (time tba) to 4 November, 9am UTC
Prompts revealed and Madness opens: Approx 9 November
Default deadline: 11 December, 9am UTC
Assignment deadline: 18 December, 9am UTC
Main Collection Reveals: 25 December (time tba)

Yuletide Discord for Hippos. Google Group for PHs.

yuletide | yuletide_admin 

2019 Tagset | 2019 Collection | Sign Ups
2019 App | Letter Post (LJ) 
YuleSwaps | Crueltide | Yuleporn 

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Comments

Re: Three truths and a lie: letters

[(Anonymous)]

How often does a blank signup mean someone wants anything?

and

A blank sign up literally means you are consenting to any type of story, yes.

aren't mutually exclusive. A blank signup means that any type of story the recip might receive is within the rules (aka, they're "consenting" to it). But that doesn't mean that the recip is likely to want literally anything.

If you write unrequested scat fic for someone with a blank signup, chances are very high that the recip will not enjoy it and that you will get wanked about. The Yuletide mods won't punish you in any way, but under the circumstances, that's a very low bar.

Re: Three truths and a lie: letters

[(Anonymous)]

NCYRT

I've always hated those kinds of wanks. If there are no details, then the author is indeed free to write whatever they want from scat and piss kink to the blandest navelgazing fic you can imagine. If you don't want to risk getting literally anything, then give your author something to work with even if it's DNW: scat and piss kink.

Re: Three truths and a lie: letters

[(Anonymous)]

I mean, you can hate those wanks all you like, but the reality is that a lot of exchange participants consider things like scat to be opt-in, regardless of whether the recip had a blank signup or not, and any unprompted scat fic is likely to be wanked over.

If the author is so desperate to write scat fic for Yuletide and/or so desperate to punish their recip for submitting a blank signup, then they can go ahead and write the scat fic without fear of modly repercussions. At the same time, however, they really shouldn't be surprised if the response to their scat fic includes an unhappy recip and a wank explosion.

Re: Three truths and a lie: letters

[(Anonymous)]

DA

Well, wankers gonna wank. If such a situation arises, there will be as many, if not more, people siding with the author who writes whatever for a blank sign-up. As an author, I wouldn't worry about it.

Re: Three truths and a lie: letters

[(Anonymous)]

CYRT

Well yeah, because wankers will wank about anything and everything, and especially things they personally find off-putting. It doesn't change the fact that author had all the right in the world to write whatever they wanted to for a blank sign-up. It's not their fault if they hit the recipients squicks or DNWs.

Re: Three truths and a lie: letters

[(Anonymous)]

DC

This idea that anything that is technically within the rules is therefore morally valid is not one we'd apply in any other context. There are all sorts of ways to be a huge asshole that are not against the rules. Hell, by this reasoning the unrequested racekink fic would have been fine if the girl had small tits, because the recip didn't think to DNW offensive racial stereotypes.

If you get a blank signup the correct course of action is to write something that would be acceptable to an average requester in that fandom, not to write the most edgy thing you can think of to punish your recip for not making a better a signup. Which means you could write scat, sure, if the canon includes scat. But otherwise that kink is an opt-in, and a bank signup by definition has not opted-in to anything.

Re: Three truths and a lie: letters

[(Anonymous)]

+10000

Especially for an exchange like Yuletide, where the likelihood that you have an exchange noobie/someone who is not part of general exchange fandom and is not aware of the norms around DNWs etc. work is extra high.

Re: Three truths and a lie: letters

[(Anonymous)]

But otherwise that kink is an opt-in

That's just the thing: exchange fandom will never agree on what's opt-in or if, in fact, the concept of "opt-in" even applies to exchanges.

I'm firmly team 'everything is opt-out', for the record. IMO, that's the whole point of DNWs.

Re: Three truths and a lie: letters

[(Anonymous)]

Ah, guess you were team "racekink is opt-out" in that wank.

Re: Three truths and a lie: letters

[(Anonymous)]

Of course people won't ever agree, because social life is complicated and people come from different spheres... but also humans are generally capable of at least trying to read the room, so to speak.

I don't think someone who writes an opt-in kink not on a DNW list should be punished by the mods. Most of the time, depending on circumstances, I think it is fine and the author shouldn't worry about it at all. But it is ridiculous to say that just because "everyone won't agree" you can't think the norms are at least somewhat useful.

Everyone will never agree on any form of etiquette--you can still make a good faith effort in following it, out of courtesy for the people around you.

Re: Three truths and a lie: letters

[(Anonymous)]

CYRT

Everyone will never agree on any form of etiquette--you can still make a good faith effort in following it

If there IS NO agreed on etiquette surrounding opt-in/outs, you can't "make an effort in following it", that's the point.

Exchange etiquette is not gifting someone a story that contains a DNW or tries to cleverly circumvent their DNWs. That's all.

Re: Three truths and a lie: letters

[(Anonymous)]

cyrt

A tip for you: if a particular action (like, say, writing race kink or non con or .toddler fucking for a blank sign-up) would inspire hundreds and hundred of comments of wank, over two anon memes, lasting for weeks... it is probably a social norm. You may not approve of it. But like. Evidence suggests, it is a norm.

Re: Three truths and a lie: letters

[(Anonymous)]

CYRT

I'm reasonably sure there were dozens, if not more, occasions where people have written noncon or supposedly opt-in kinks for blank sign-ups and no one noticed or cared. I've done it in the past. There was no wank whatsoever.

Re: Three truths and a lie: letters

[(Anonymous)]

Fair enough! And it’s not something I think would be clearly rude, especially with more context, because it’s the sort of thing people regularly want. Toddler fucking or race kink, though, seem like a clear bit of rudeness.

I was just pushing back against the illogical argument that because the thing could not be perfectly defined it does not exist in any meaningful sense. Most social concepts work like that.

Re: Three truths and a lie: letters

[(Anonymous)]

DC

There would be wank because people would disagree with each other. You know what means? There's no social norm they all agree on!

Re: Three truths and a lie: letters

[(Anonymous)]

Social norms often have varient interpretations or lead to disagreement. I’m just saying it’s not random happenstance that unrequested race kink led to wank and unrequested blowjobs wouldn’t.

Re: Three truths and a lie: letters

[(Anonymous)]

That was because FFA anons are all about KINKTOMATO until it's a kink they're not into. Then it's gross and/or morally wrong.

Re: Three truths and a lie: letters

[(Anonymous)]

To be fair, I do think there was wank about blowjobs at one point, wasn't there? For sure rimming.

But yeah, I'm pretty much with you that my response to a blank sign up would be to try to write something that is basically in line with canon, and I'd avoid the archive warnings even if they were present in canon. (I'd feel comfortable brushing up against them -- mentioning rape or people getting their hands cut off in a GOT request, for instance -- but wouldn't make them my centerpiece).

And more than that, there ARE some things that are generally considered opt in. There's a reason scat is always the example here: because that IS considered opt in. Even if there are only a small handful of things in the "clearly the vast majority of people agree these are opt in" category, those things should still be avoided, IMO.

Re: Three truths and a lie: letters

[(Anonymous)]

NC

+1000

Re: Three truths and a lie: letters

[(Anonymous)]

Racists disagreeing with others about the acceptability of their racism is par for the course. As is thinking there’s a valid other side to inflicting a racist act onto someone.

Re: Three truths and a lie: letters

[(Anonymous)]

Having a racekink doesn't mean you're definitely a racist anymore than having a rape kink means you're definitely a rapist. What the hell.

Re: Three truths and a lie: letters

[(Anonymous)]

Sorry, did you just apply the words "morally valid" to fanwork exchanges?

Also, to some people, what you consider "an edgy kink" is just a kink. You're not the kink police who decides where the line between edgy and not is drawn, or what kinks and tropes are opt-in or opt-out.

Re: Three truths and a lie: letters

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I think if you start dividing in opt-in vs. opt-out, there might be a few things that are obvious, but most things will be hotly debated and everyone will argue that the somewhat controversial tropey/kinky/narrative thing they really hate is absolutely opt-in and the stuff they like is probably opt-out.

Re: Three truths and a lie: letters

[(Anonymous)]

Fandom isn't a morality-free space, whatever you may think. The fandom police isn't going to come to arrest you but that doesn't mean you can't still manage to be an asshole.

Re: Three truths and a lie: letters

[(Anonymous)]

Everyone on earth considers scat to be an edgier kink than say, light spanking, including extremely kink-positive people who love scat.

There are some kinks that might be hard to rank in edginess relative to each other, and the line of where vanilla crosses into kink is somewhat fuzzy, but the presence of edge cases doesn't mean that there isn't a scale or that people don't have a general sense of what it is.