coaltide | And another one!

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2023

And another one!

I see my nemesis getting a fic that I love
And I'm like, "Fuck you"
I guess my 10k letter wasn't enough
I'm like, "Fuck you and fuck morbane, too"
Said, "If I was a long commenter, they woulda gamed for me"
Ha, now ain't that some shit?
(Ain't that some shit?)
And although there's pain in my chest
I still comment it's the best
And runs to coal to shout "Fuck you"

Nominations: Monday 18 to Thursday 28 September (Coordination | Evidence Post)
Sign-ups: Friday 13 to Saturday 21 October (NYR | Promo Post)
Assignments Out: Monday 23 October (may be earlier)
Default Deadline: Monday 11 December
Assignment Deadline: Monday 18 December
Main Collection Opens: Monday 25 December
Madness Opens: Tuesday 26 December
Author Reveals: Monday 1 January

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CYRT

Still for the same "I don't use AI because it doesn't produce results I like" thing I mentioned above.

especially over here at coaltide

and most ai won't write you anything above pg rating.

In my life I wrote fan-fiction, original work in exchanges and fiction that was published professionally (not in English). In my opinion, Original Works are more similar to fan-fiction than pro-fiction. They have the same tropes, they're generally ship-focused and/or about a specific kink. I would not send to an agent my Virgin King/Arranged Marriage Husband Who Can Get Mpregnant original work. On the contrary, my AO3 readers may be into it!
There are always exception, of course, and no strict rules or definitions, but writing OW for a recip to me is not very different from writing fic. I understand why OW is part of fandom exchanges.

Do you write professionally published romance? That's the genre whose tropes overlap a lot with OW.

There are AI that specialize in not PG (though I think admittedly they aren't as good as the most up to date Chat GPT)

But if the argument is that AI doesn't produce fic that's good enough for you to want as a gift, then don't give it to other people either. And if it is good enough, then just let it write your gift.

I have had fics that never got a comment from their recip, including one where the recip disappeared entirely between assignments going out and reveals, but I've never had one that got no comments, which I assume is the definition of bombing in Yuletide.

Yeah I know there's never a guarantee and I hold no ill will toward my author. I'm easy to please so I know I'll enjoy the fic regardless. I think the reason I'm so disappointed is because I'm disappointed in myself?

I requested a popular fandom that has a juggernaut ship I'm just okay about (I'll read fic of it and enjoy it, but I don't really seek it out on my own) and I was so worried about alienating my writer with my prompt (can you tell I grew up in a judgy conservative community? haha !) so I gave them the ok to write the juggernaut ship if they didn't like my prompt, because I was worried they would really only want to write for that and I didn't want them to have a bad time writing for me.

Part of it was because I figured there'd be a lot of bucket offers that might match with my strange character picks and not like it. But really I was just being a coward and I could have just requested that all my characters be included and DNWed the ship so that it wouldn't be the focus, and they probably wouldn't have minded

Thank you for the id pro quo recommendation!! I actually hadn't heard of it before and now I think I will definitely sign up

A AYRT RT

That was my point. I don't use AI at all because I don't like the fic it produces. I wouldn't gift it to someone, I wouldn't use it for myself. If I was happy with the quality, I wouldn't think of using AI as creating and wouldn't feel guilty about it, but that's purely theoretical at this point.

CYRT

No, but what you're saying about romance tropes is true about fan-fiction too. I think it's not the tropes alone, but also the general spirit. People write trope-y OW in exchanges as a hobby and they post it on an AO3 collection for an audience of fanfic readers who are into those tropes. The most important thing is writing the trope/ship dynamic/kink well. I'm not saying there aren't things in common with pro-writing, but if I have to write something professionally, I feel a lot more pressure and there are other things to keep in mind, to the point that it's like a different activity to me. I don't know, I used to be confused about OW in exchanges when I started doing them, but after seeing the kind of things people requested and wrote, it made perfect sense to me to see them as part of the fandom experience.

Ao3 House Style OW is selfpub (and rarely picked up by tradpub) as OW literally all the time. Fanwork is transformative work. Original work is not transformative.

Except a lot of OW in exchanges is fic with its serial numbers filed off. It's no more or no less transformative than some random high school AU fic.

"Original work is fanwork when it's fanfiction with the names find/replaced" is frankly even more reason that it doesn't belong in exchanges, any more than I should submit find/replaced MCU to a DC exchange

I would like to hear more about what you see in exchange OW that supports this thesis, I'm genuinely curious!

I've not read a whole lot of exchange OW but what I have read doesn't feel particularly like it's serial-numbers-filed-off large pairings; some of it feels like it's people's beloved OCs shoved into requester's prompt with different names, and some of it feels like ATG fic where they didn't have to slap canon names on for once, and some of it feels like it might have started as a fandom AU that then went seriously off the rails until nothing about it resembled the original canon or characters particularly, and some of it reads like issuefic that is more interested in the issue than anything else. All of these things turn up a lot in juggernaut pairings so I definitely see the similarity, especially if you are sick and tired of those kinds of fic! But I wouldn't class them particularly as serial numbers filed off, just as thank goodness they didn't try to pass it off as needing a serial number in the first place.

I had one that never got anything but a lukewarm recip comment and kudos, but in their defense, it wasn't very good.

DC

I feel like the anti-OW coalies here are not really familiar with exchange OW in the first place. They have probably never really checked the tagset, the requests or the OW that gets written.

we should have yuletide but for just ai fic

I have. It's original work. It isn't transformative. It is not fanfiction. It doesn't belong in a fanwork exchange.

That's been suggested before! You should run it.

CYRT

"Serial numbers filed off" was a glib way of phrasing it, sorry. I don't necessarily mean a 1:1 thing where the OW fic is Stucky with names replaced. But when I write OW, the characters are always vaguely based on existing characters I love. I don't think that's unusual or weird - I also see it a lot in other people's OW where the similarities are obvious when you look at their OW vs. the characters they write in fanfic. And for the record, this isn't an anti-OW opinion. There's nothing wrong with this (or with OW in exchanges).

CYRT

You shouldn't do a simple name replace for MCU and DC because it would mean the worldbuilding and the characterization is wrong and your fic will end up contradicting canon.

I really don't think that argument holds merit for OW.

NC

It surprises me every time I see someone say this, because it's not how I read or write OW at all. Not saying it's unusual or weird to do so, just that it's not my experience so I'm surprised when people say it's the norm.

+1

While there is some space and superhero stuff, none of it feels remotely like Star Wars or the MCU like that one nonnie said. Historical or fantasy-historical royalty settings are really common. F/F isn't as popular as M/M, but there's a nontrivial amount of it. The character dynamics in shippy fandom-adjacent OW generally feel a lot like the self-published and trad published gay romances I've read.

Anti-OW coalies could make a less laughable argument if they actually had some idea what they were talking about. I'd still disagree with them, but at least their premises and conclusion wouldn't be objectively silly.

DC

I don't actually think it's the norm.

Right....

Because OW doesn't have a canon to make transformative work from. Because it isn't transformative, and it's not fanwork.

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