coaltide | This is Yuletide, everybody make a scene

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2020

This is Yuletide, everybody make a scene

I am the sock with the tear-away face

Low-effort with your gift and gone without a trace

I am the "who" when you call, "Who does an exchange without acknowledging their gift?"
I am the wanker blowing through your fics comments
I am the coalie dragging your letter at night
Filling your exchange to the brim with fright!

This is Coaltide!

Nominations: Tuesday 22 September to Thursday 1 October

Sign-ups: Friday 16 October to Monday 26 October

Assignments out: between 26 & 28 October

Default deadline: Friday 11 December

Assignment Deadline: Friday 18 December

Yuletide Discord for Hippos. Google Group for PHs. F_F wiki for history.

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If we were "free" of FFN, it would just lead to coalies freaking the fuck out about how X isn't a rare fandom, it's just rare on AO3.

NA

Genuine question: who cares?

Dunkirk is eligible but it probably has a fuckton of fic on Wattpad. Same goes for a lot of cnovels or BL dramas. TW, TSN and GK made it in for a few years because they were LJ fandoms. SPN should technically be WAY BIGGER because it was an LJ fandom for so long and had its own archive.

We are posting and reading our fics on AO3. If a random anime megafandom gets it into Yuletide because it has no AO3 fandom I don’t personally care. There will not be 90 Sailor Moon fics in 2020 because even though lots of people know it, it isn’t that popular a fandom anymore, especially in AO3 fandom. YoI didn’t even blow up THAT much and it was a fandom at its peak. People act like FFN is the Great Wall keeping an influx of popular megafandoms from taking over Yuletide. If people really wanted to write those fandoms on AO3, they would be ineligible even if FFN was gone. If by some magic stroke Sailor Moon turns into Captive Prince where it gets a steady stream of fics and eventually hits 1k applicable works on AO3, good for them and goodbye Sailor Moon.

+1000

The outcry made sense when Yuletide mods tried to stop counting FFN a number of years ago, back when AO3 was still a new and relatively small archive. But AO3's well-established now, and the number of megafandoms that would become eligible with this rule change is now far more reasonable.

And as you point out, large fandoms are still getting into Yuletide, as long as their fic is mostly posted on Wattpad or LJ or single fandom archives or etc. It seems a lot simpler and fairer to just use AO3 to determine fandom eligibility.

NA

I care, and my reasoning has nothing to do with what the "right" measure is for eligibility. I just find the ff.net interface fucking annoying and hate checking two places.

NA

+1. Though technically three places, since I have to check ff.net twice (regular and crossovers). And the interface sucks so bad, coalies. So bad.

(Sailor Moon anime and manga wouldn't classify for Yuletide even if only AO3 counted.)

(AYRT was using a universal anime that is known to be big to not alienate non-anime coalies. If Eastern fandom was the Yuletide
majority I would have used Supernatural as my ‘old fandom that may be small on AO3 but everyone knows is huge’ example, just FYI!)

A different western fandom that's small on AO3 but everyone knows it's huge:

The Social Network (2010) got into yuletide ... laaaast year? It was huge on LJ circa 2011. It's still eligible without evidence because, well:

No Category on FFN + 1 FFN community with 14 fics in it.

901 fic on AO3: https://archiveofourown.org/works?utf8=%E2%9C%93&work_search%5Bsort_column%5D=revised_at&work_search%5Bother_tag_names%5D=&work_search%5Bquery%5D=words+%3E+1000&work_search%5Blanguage_id%5D=1&work_search%5Bcomplete%5D=0&work_search%5Bcomplete%5D=1&commit=Sort+and+Filter&tag_id=The%20Social%20Network%20(2010)

But LOOK at that kink meme! It's ten parts long! But somehow, TSN is "rare for yuletide"? If you'd tried to nominate it in 2012 you'd have been laughed at.

https://tsn-kinkmeme.livejournal.com/

There's no reason to count FFN and not wattpad, asianfanfics, smaller single-fandom archives, or to not factor in fandoms that were big on LJ -- It's an arbitrary choice that doesn't make any sense. Especially now that ao3 is a significant archive itself.

All it does is accurately count some fractions of older Western and anime/manga/video game fandoms while making sure modern fandoms (especially the growing RPF and live action, webtoon, or novel Eastern fandoms which is where a big portion of fandom is trending) are undercounted and will be eligible even though they’re really popular. FF doesn’t allow explicit or RPF yet that it is seen as a parallel to AO3 is wild.

And frankly, it would be more reasonable to let some older larger, BUT INACTIVE western media/anime/manga/video game fandoms slip in than the cucurrently active, popular/ineligible but for technicality fandoms that just aren't on Ao3 or FFN.

Realistically, how do you propose to count Wattpad?

I just searched (with a couple different search terms) for one of my tiny fandoms. It turned up 4.1K fics -- but none of the ones on the first page are actually for the fandom in question. (Actually I really doubt more than a handful are - this is a genuinely obscure fandom with under 15 works between ff.net and AO3.) There also isn't any way to filter by word count, just by the number of chapters.

Apparently using quotation marks doesn't work, or the site uses different prioritization, because instead of "Example Fandom" (my search) I got results full of OCs named "Example Jones," fic entitled "Fandom Is My Co-Pilot (A BTS Adventure)", "This is my last day dressed as Princess Example Fandom," "OC/Pirate!Reader you are a fierce pirate and OC has just met you" etc.

Theoretically, there could be fic for my fandom on there, but I'm not finding it with their search and I'm not finding it searching through Google. (Actually not entirely true. I did manage to dig up two documents related to the fandom via Google when I made my terms much more detailed. The first is a set of Tumblr-esque thoughts about multiple fandoms. The second is a download link for a pirated copy of canon. I'm really missing out by not searching Wattpad more often!)

Fic that's hard to find is still fic for the fandom -- ie, the same argument for keeping crossovers in the works count: Fic that's a crossover is still fic for the fandom.

Someone could probably write up a bookmarklet using the wattpad API, especially if they're a regular wattpad user in addition to having some coding chops.

Though they've also offered "we can't filter out crossovers on AO3" as a reason to include crossovers--that technological barrier has been broken now.

For full transparency: my ultimate desire is actually having yuletide transition to being a "rare on AO3" exchange, with broader fandom inclusivity that accounts for fandom activity as well as overall numbers.

OT

Though they've also offered "we can't filter out crossovers on AO3" as a reason to include crossovers--that technological barrier has been broken now.

I confess that I'm hoping they change that rule at some point, as well. I only ever read crossovers when I know both fandoms, so most crossovers might as well not exist for me. Fortunately, none of my current fandoms are of a size where that would matter: they're either teeny-tiny or quite large, with nothing in the middle. But my luck probably won't hold out forever.

There are other issues around crossovers. I've written and received crossovers at Yuletide, and it would be really weird for fic eligible to be posted for Yuletide not to be counted for fandom eligibility. (The one case where this DOES happen is non-English fic, but that's much rarer than crossovers. Filtering the 2019 YT main collection works for crossovers yields 121 out of 2074. Filtering on language yields 1 non-English work.)

Though they've also offered "we can't filter out crossovers on AO3" as a reason to include crossovers--that technological barrier has been broken now.
Has it though? Yes, there's a filter for it on AO3, but it doesn't really work. Thor/Loki fics tagged with "Thor movies" and "Avengers movies" still show up even when you ask to "show only crossovers", even though they aren't crossovers. There are a lot of Yuletide-sized fandoms with this issue, where there's an "All Media Types" that always gets tagged along with the specific adaptation, or when people tag both the book and the movie. Trying to sort through that sounds like it would be a nightmare for the mods. I don't blame them for continuing to count crossovers, in an effort to simply get the counting done.

Thor/Loki fics tagged with "Thor movies" and "Avengers movies" still show up even when you ask to "show only crossovers", even though they aren't crossovers.

Really? Can you drop a link where that's happening? Because I've never seen that happen in the MCU. I've seen it happen if one is tagged with "Avengers - All Media Types," but at that point you're de facto including comics and games and stuff too.

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