coaltide | Morbane's coal

In quantum wankchanics, Morbane's coal is a thought experiment, sometimes described as a paradox, of quantum wankerposition. In the thought experiment, a hypothetical gift may be considered simultaneously both the fic of your dreams (TFOYD) and coal, while it is unread state, as a result of its fate being linked to a random subatomic event that may or may not occur.

The Coaltide interpretation implies that, after a while, the gift is simultaneously TFOYD and coal. Yet, when a coalie clicks on their gift, the coalie sees the gift either TFOYD or coal, not both TFOYD and coal. This poses the question of when exactly quantum wankerposition ends and reality resolves into one possibility or the other.

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I agree with that! But I dislike the framing that the problem is totally just that canon has no women and that means fandom isn't misogynistic. Fandom definitely has a misogyny problem because the world has a misogyny problem; saying that doesn't mean it's anyone's job to embrace activism to fix it. But the Franzeska argument of "actually there are just no well-written women in any of my canons so I can only write about men" is, well, a Franzeska argument.

Look I'd love more femslash and it seems like when we get more women characters we get more femslash. The issue with less women characters to choose from in canon can not be solved on the fandom level.

We could all get together and try to do some actual activism to change that, but this anon thread started by some wanker pissing on Yuletide writers for writing a lot of M/M isn't actually doing anything but letting assholes have fun shitting on people.

I also never mentioned 'well written' female characters so you're rehashing an argument I'm not having.

Look, I agree that OP was being meanspiritied, but if you're in this thread I am going to reply to the ideas you put forward. You didn't mention quality but you did mention quantity, and you've chosen to ignore my observation that even in fandoms with plenty of women, there is a paucity of fic about them.

No one has to "solve" this on the "fandom level". But it is still true, and it's annoying when people double down on convoluted explanations rather than just acknowledging that fannish misogyny plays a role.

It may be a Franzeska argument but somebody - possibly toastystats? Or possibly they just linked to it? - actually ran the numbers a few years back on a selection of large fandoms and it was weirdly well correlated.

Like, if there are four men and two women with equal screentime in the main cast, you won't get two-thirds m/m and one-third f/f, but out of that set of characters, there are six possible m/m ships and one possible f/f ship, and that 6:1 is weirdly close to the average stats you'd see for that fandom's ship fic (and of course a lot of large canons have much worse female rep than that.)

Obviously people aren't writing from a randomly selected set of all possible pairings, but with that cast, all other things being equal, you have six times the odds of a m/m ship just happening to hit the zeitgeist and get big than an f/f one.

(As to why mostly-male casts are more likely in large fandoms... that's partly Hollywood misogyny and partly fandom misogyny.)

This is circular reasoning par excellence. Yes, of course dude-heavy canons result in dude-heavy fic! The question is why fandom is so obsessed with dudes in the first place. If you believe it's because pop star RPF, or comics, or YA fantasy, doesn't have any canons with more women than men, and misogyny on the part of fans never comes into the equation, I have a bridge to sell you.

because i want to see two cocks fucking

They have way more canons with more men than women, even in those genres, sadly. The "odds of zeitgeist" part applies to fandoms as much as pairings. (And when I've tried to run the numbers on some fandoms I love that I thought of as female-character-heavy, a lot of them turned out to still be majority male, because we've all been trained to think of 1/3 women as a lot, or two women leads with a mostly-male supporting cast. Even one more male than female on the main cast multiplies the possible m/m ships considerably.)

But yeah, of course there's misogyny in what canons and ships fandom gloms onto! There's misogyny everywhere as people have been saying up and down this thread. The simple numerical correlation working out is super interesting though and I think even the people who did it expected it to disprove the argument.

It's fucking exhausting, as a woman, to have someone repeatedly show up to tut you that the things you choose to write as an escapist hobby are misogyny on par with the misogyny you face in your daily life, and you should stop writing that and write them the type of pornography they prefer instead.

Oh wah wah wah, I am also a woman you big baby. No one said "on par with the misogyny you face in your daily life", but misogyny is still present in fandom just like it's present everywhere else. Grow up.

Nah.

Baby, yes. I'm a pansexual woman who prefers a lot of m/m to other pairings, but who regularly requests M/f and MM/f and the very occasional f/f and still gets just the m/m.

My god damn porn preferences do not make a worldview. The fact that some nonnies can't seem to grasp that is their god damn problem and not mine.

There's something in this, but it doesn't explain ATG m/m ships with fanon characterisation of extremely background male characters becoming large ships, but the same phenomenon being less likely for female characters.

It still sort of does! Some people like writing in a big fandom but working with a blank slate of a canon character, and if there are 66 possible background whitebread m/m ships and three possible f/f ones, it's still way more likely that an m/m one will hit the zeitgeist by chance than an f/f one. And if you look at fandoms that are super heavy on f/f and female characters you do sometimes see that with femslash - Mercymorn/Christabel is one of the top ten Locked Tomb f/f ships and Christabel barely appears in canon (though she still has more personality than a lot of the white dudes that happens to...)

But yeah I don't think anything explains more than a fraction of Clint/Coulson except that a significant part of fandom has never questioned their deep focus on very basic white actors.

ATG is how a ship is written, it's not about how frequently characters appear, or whether or not they interact, canon pairings can be written as ATG just as easily as the rarest background pairs, it's a specific type of bad writing where the characters are unrecognisable and are written so generically they could be any character from any fandom. There's no such thing as an ATG ship, as any ship can be written that way.

Morbane's coal

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