coaltide | Offseason #1

I would. There's such a thing as context.

It's an offensive phrase for many people in disability discourse regardless of context.

AYRT

You gotta learn to pick your battles. The context of this made it clear what was meant, and that it wasn't offensive. The world would be a better place if people spent their energy on the serious things that spikedluv and others do, rather than things like this. But obviously that will never happen.

NA

+1

Coming into this late it just looks like ayrt was looking for something to go all appalled over and had to settle for "very common phrase can be twisted a bit to look off"

+2

I'm late to this discussion, but:

The context here is that someone responded to a coalie who had a different perspective/understanding of the situation with the words "what's wrong with you". (Not to mention that this was used within the context of a discussion about people with disabilities which may be either mental or physical).

That's actually the exact context in which many neurodivergent people find this offensive.

When you've watched people look at an autistic relative who is interpreting something differently to others, and ask you "what's wrong with him", then yes, this context is offensive.

People with (often mental) disabilities have been sectioned or ostracized throughout history because they've had a different perspective/way of reacting and people have thought something has been "wrong" with them. It's not the phrase to use in this sort of a discussion, even if the person thought they were using it "innocuously" and it's also not appropriate to tell people that they shouldn't find it problematic.

Actually the context for this starts with someone saying that calling out discriminatory behaviour is bad for the disabled community. It's a very nice derail though, ignoring the actually offensive statement to focus on a statement that had a meaning that was very simple to understand in the context of this thread.

While I'm well aware of the history of discriminatory language directed towards people with many varied disabilities , I've never in all my years of activism seen a group,I've been involved with have someone take offence at the "what's wrong with you?" statement being used to question offensive behaviour, so I've got to admit I'm curious where you're from that activism groups focus on this?

I didn't ignore the discriminatory behavior - you don't know how I engaged with that discussion when it originated.

As for the context, I explained above that the very context in which this was used, ie. Someone understanding something differently or having a different opinion meaning something is wrong with them, is the exact context that some of us do not like.

I'm not going to give you my geographical location, but while activism groups definitely don't focus on this, we also know better than to use it toward each other as many people would be upset.

I do find it odd and contradictory that you're so upset about a mod being insensitive to disability issues, yet your reaction to being told something like this is offensive to some people is not to simply say "ok will phrase differently next time" but to double down against it.

CYRT, You're right I don't know what you said in the original discussion or indeed if you engaged at all, but in this thread you ignored the actual offensive statement in order to derail about something that's a nonissue. And yes I absolutely dtand by the idea that saying "what's wrong with you?" as a way of calling out discriminatory or offensive behaviour is not in that context discriminatory itself. It's something I've heard people with disabilities say more times than I could count in exasperated response to nondisabled people behaving shittily both in my own country and at multinational conferences and meetings so your insistence that it's offensive and that disabilty activists agree with your interpretation is not my experience with the phrase at all.

I'm glad it's a nonissue for you due to your experiences. Part of disability discourse is recognizing that other people have faced different prejudices and issues and comments from people that have caused different words to mean different things, and being able to accept that a word that means one thing to you may mean another to someone else. We all have different experiences. It's important to take those on board when we speak to each other and be willing to learn. Otherwise we would still be using the very old outdated terminologies that I'm sure we would now both agree are offensive.

CYRT, Yes there are a wide variety of behaviours and experiences, and very obviously language and terminology evolves and embraces new ideas and words. However acknowledging those different experiences does not mean that all of us involved in acivism in general and disability activism specifically are required to agree that a common usage of a phrase that many of do not in any way find offensive in specific contexts is offensive just because you say it is. I'm sorry that you're so unwilling to accept the fact that there is not one true way to be an activist, and that you're seemingly incapable of acknowledging that your opinion is not universally accepted and that not agreeing with you does not necessarily mean that they are wrong or being offensive.

Well that's quite the case of pot, kettle and black! so I guess I'll leave it there!

lol what, the cyrt is the one talking about different people having different experiences, you're the one insisting that just because you haven't seen something before means it doesn't exist, kinda looks like you're the one whose unwilling to accept the fact that there's more than one way to look at stuff.

Your lousy English makes it blatantly obvious that you are, indeed, the CYRT in question. This is just sad.

a) no but good try and b) wtf is wrong with my english?

All lowercase, extreme run-on sentence, don't know the difference between "whose" and "who's", etc.

Re: Sundial Exchange (Guardian etc)

(Anonymous) - 2020-01-16 01:48 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Sundial Exchange (Guardian etc)

(Anonymous) - 2020-01-16 01:52 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Sundial Exchange (Guardian etc)

(Anonymous) - 2020-01-16 02:29 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Sundial Exchange (Guardian etc)

(Anonymous) - 2020-01-16 01:44 (UTC) - Expand

CYRT, no that's not what I'm saying, the coalie I was talking to was insisting that their experience that the phrase "what's wrong with you" could only be seen as discriminatory and offensive, and that everyone had to agree regardless of context.

Let's face it this entire subthread is a massive derail. It started when someone made the offensive statement that calling out discrimination is bad for the disabled community, and was rightfully called out for it. Rather than look at that the coalie responded by attempting to police the way it was called out, because to them apparently righteous anger is more shitty than actual bigotry

You realize that according to that mindset no one would be able to say anything whatsoever, since everything is offensive to someone somewhere?

Ditto all of this.

AYRT

I disagree completely, and like the above coalie said I wish you wouldn't willfully ignore the actually offensive and problematic thing that was said in favor of something so completely non-issue as this. I'm disabled in more ways than one and spend a lot of time with such various circles, and I have never ever experienced anyone have an issue with this phrase. In fact, people use it all the time! But it's somehow "not appropriate" for me to say that? WTF.

I haven't willfully ignored the other part - you have no idea how I did or did not engage in that situation when it occurred. Regardless, that doesn't mean I am not allowed to add my opinion when people seem confused as to why a coalie is upset at a use of a certain phrase.

I didn't say it was inappropriate for you to say you don't have a problem with this phrase, simply that it was inappropriate not to tell someone else they shouldn't find it problematic if they have good reasons for doing so. There are several people who do find it problematic, and to just tell them they're wrong seems like an odd decision for someone who is apparently championing sensitivity toward disabled people.

"simply that it was inappropriate not to tell someone else they shouldn't find it problematic"

So you actually agree with the ayrt, then. Lol, give it a rest already--you can't even make sense of what you're trying to say yourself.

haha, gotta drop in and suggest you acquire yourself some reading comprehension, cos you're a little embarrassing rn

CYRT

...Maybe read it again? You really should aquire some reading comprehension yourself before going around making such a fool of yourself.

How you acted or did not act during that debacle is besides the point. You DID willfully ignore the context in this thread, which is what we're talking about. Stop trying to derail things to make yourself look better.