coaltide | Offseason #1

No, I don't think it makes you less of a lesbian either, and honestly, fuck everyone who says that.

For me personally, appearance is the most important thing (yes, sure, personality is important too, and of course a bad personality is also a dealbreaker, but I'll never even get to this point if their looks don't appeal to me). Which might make me shallow, but I'm not a transphobe, and I hate how some people in this thread (and in general) are conflating "not personally into it" with "disgusted by".

NC

Sure, but, like... you do see the transphobes in the thread, right? People aren’t throwing around that accusation without being prompted by a hell of a lot transphobia. I genuinely don’t think you’re transphobic, but it’s an odd choice to insist really hard that you don’t want to fuck trans women while a bunch of people are denying they exist and calling them rapists.

There sure are a lot of situations where it's odd, unseemly, or inappropriate to talk about homosexuality! Hm, I wonder why that it!

AYRT

Is it really an odd choice to see the transphobes and ask not to be conflated with them based on personal attraction, which at least one coalie upthread has done?

Where in the thread did someone call trans women rapists? There are trans women rapists, but I've never seen a claim that all of them are rapists and I think the straw is leaking out of that one. The cotton ceiling argument is rapey, but there's a difference between calling that out and accusing someone of being an actual out and out rapist.

+1

https://coaltide.dreamwidth.org/2090.html?thread=5606954#cmt5606954
Somebody pulling out “there are more trans women rapists than conservative-aligned radfems” (more than one single organization spouts that crap)

https://coaltide.dreamwidth.org/2090.html?thread=5607978#cmt5607978
And here’s someone saying they’re talking about “sexual harassment” when they deny that trans women are women (they are) who belong in gendered spaces including lesbian spaces if they are lesbian trans women (they do).

I thought the first comment was just about how the group that everyone references is, like, someone's tupperware party size.

sa

...and the second one also isn't saying what you claim it is. Someone getting badgered into sex they don't want because they're a bigot if they don't agree is definitely sexual harassment, and that's what that subthread is about.

No one is badgering anyone into sex though, they’re all just pointing out the transphobes’ transphobic assumptions about all trans women when they insist trans women are gross interloping straight men who must all have penises and want to use them to unlesbianify those poor totally not bigoted stereotyping Real women.

AYRT

Where on earth are you getting this from? Is this the "if you get called a TERF, you must be a TERF, and pointing out that you're not and are just being called this because of your sexual orientation is defending TERFs" line again?

No.

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The harassment in this conversation was the harassing of lesbians to date men who id as women or they're evil terfs, which is a view supported in that thread.

to date men who id as women

Yikes. Please get off my side.

I don't know what's worse - people who think my dating preferences should be more inclusive, or people who call trans women "men who id as women". Ideally, I'd lock those two groups up in a room together and throw away the key.

That person has been on your side this whole time, for the entire thread. I can’t believe you haven’t noticed them before—that’s why people are getting so upset. They’ve said shit like that over and over.

https://coaltide.dreamwidth.org/2090.html?thread=5606954#cmt5606954
Somebody pulling out “there are more trans women rapists than conservative-aligned radfems” (more than one single organization spouts that crap, and trans exclusion is inherently conservative and bigoted)

And here’s someone saying they’re talking about “sexual harassment” when they deny that trans women are women (they are) who belong in gendered spaces including lesbian spaces if they are lesbian trans women (they do). The presence of trans lesbians in lesbian spaces is not sexual harassment, and their implication that it is lets us know they think the mere presence of a trans woman in a women’s spaces is a threat of sexual violence.

Ugh, for some reason the earlier version didn’t appear when I refreshed flat view so that’s why this is here again.

trans exclusion is inherently conservative and bigoted

So is most of the pro-trans stuff people are spouting in this thread. I could be filling out a goddamn bingo card of "if you like a strap-on what's wrong with my dick," "I can't believe you care only about genitals and not about someone's soul," etc.

To say nothing of the whole church-flavored rules-lawyering about how we're not saying that it's terfy not to want someone with a dick, we're just saying it's terfy to make assumptions about people with dicks, and you'd only refuse them if you were making those assumptions.

The whole discussion of types of sex trans folks might want to have was in response to a transphobic lesbian saying that Because all trans women are actually men they Must always and forever be a walking penis for heteronormative fucking, failing entirely to grasp that arguments about pure and true lesbian sex are grounded on cis hetero ideas of what makes a true lesbian— if you say that no one who enjoys dicks is a lesbian, you are invalidating the variety of lived experiences of lesbians and are saying that Gold Star Lesbian transphobes are the only Real Lesbians.

People who cannot imagine, even hypothetically, a single possible body configuration that is both trans and attractive to them are probably transphobic in their ideas about trans people, just like people who can’t imagine that even a single person of Asian heritage could be attractive to them are probably racist in their ideas about Asian people.

cyrt

The weird fucking spiel about the types of sex that trans people might want to have was absolutely not in response to a "transphobic lesbian saying that because trans women are men they must be a walking penis for heteronormative fucking." A lesbian coalie talked about how they're not a TERF but have been called a TERF for not wanting to date someone with a dick, and another coalie went off on them about how actually they're being called a TERF for rejecting someone based on false assumption that they'd wand PIV.

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da

People who cannot imagine, even hypothetically, a single possible body configuration that is both trans and attractive to them are probably transphobic in their ideas about trans people, just like people who can’t imagine that even a single person of Asian heritage could be attractive to them are probably racist in their ideas about Asian people.

Or they just have a very narrow focus on what's attractive to them. (And I think it depends on what you mean with "of Asian heritage". If I'm into super pale, very tall, natural blonde, big breasted women only, I'm not gonna give a fuck if my potential date had an Asian great-grandma who married into a Norwegian family as long as she's still pale and tall and blonde and has big tits. A non-racist person doesn't care about "heritage" when it comes to attraction, they care about looks.)

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(Anonymous) - 2020-01-09 17:24 (UTC) - Expand

Men who cannot imagine, even hypothetically a single possible body configuration that is both female and attractive to them are probably misogynistic.

They claim to be gay, but we all know the truth.

Re: Chocolate Box - Letter 3T1L

(Anonymous) - 2020-01-09 22:22 (UTC) - Expand

People who cannot imagine, even hypothetically, a single possible body configuration that is both trans and attractive to them

TBH, most of these cases are gonna be early/non-transitioning trans men for lesbians. The dating situation won't work out, but in terms of who it's physically possible to find attractive? It's probably going to be someone with a body they can be attracted to but a gender that's incompatible with their sexual orientation.

It's not about "being trans."

DC

This whole thing started because someone cried TERF after a coalie said they'd look askance at a request that put in a DNW of transphobia.

I'd look askance at most unexplained DNWs of -isms. They tend to be unclear.