coaltide | Offseason #1

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offseason

Offseason #1

Use this post for any exchanges running from January onwards into the first quarter of the year. Try to keep final Yuletide thoughts in the last coal post of 2019 for ease of conversation.

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Do you walk up to random people and ask to see their birth certificate and/or genitals?

No, because humans are sexually dimorphic and can be visually sexed. Have you never heard of any languages that have grammatical gender? Do you think everyone using them has to ask every new person which sex they are?

When I meet a new person, I use the pronouns they prefer and apologize and correct myself if I get it wrong. I assume people know their own gender better than I do. Anyone who does otherwise is a transphobic bigot.

Many trans people are cis passing, you have probably met them and never known.

dc

People like me who are pansexual don't really care about anatomy, identity or gender. None of that factors into whether I can find someone attractive. It's so simple for us. And so hard for me to wrap my head around the need to label people's sexual identities according to a complete stranger's opinion. Why. Does It. Matter?

A woman who is attracted to women is a lesbian.

A lesbian who is attracted to women but not women who might have male genitalia or other male attributes (not all trans women do) might not be transphobic. They might just put more importance in and find attraction more based on a vagina than other female attributes.

A man who is attracted to men is gay.

A man who is attracted to men but not men who might have female genitalia or other female attributes (not all trans men do) may not be transphobic, but just put more importance in and find attraction more based on a penis than other male attributes.

There are plenty of gay people and lesbians who are transphobic, but I don't think it's correct to assume the things that attract or do not attract them must qualify as inclusion in that group.

There's also a vast chasm between not being attracted to a trans person and finding them disgusting. Everything isn't that black or white.

That’s why I specified that disgust makes a transphobe, and that not being interested in any particular individual may or may not be transphobic, yes. The blanket presumption that trans always = particular traits or genitals itself is transphobic, though.

+100

Well said.

In one of my cultural traditions, there are 6 human sexes. In German everything becomes feminine when pluralized. People come in many forms and a lot of them are androgynous or ambiguous. Even Wikipedia knows that you can’t always sex someone visually while looking directly at their junk. You’re so confident you could clock any trans person and you remind me of the older radfem lesbian I knew who was so certain she could tell but never did realize my best friend was trans. She flirted so hard with my bestie til we moved away and she still has no idea.

Humans are sexually dimorphic not because this is a fun cultural concept we decided to make up one day, but because this is how human reproduction works. We are split then into two reproductive classes, being the ones capable of impregnating and the ones capable of being impregnated. Nobody can do both. Nobody has been able to switch from one class to the other.

I've never claimed to be able to clock everybody. Some people look odd and can't be easily sexed. They're still one sex or the other. Being androgynous doesn't make you not a woman or a man.

There are at least 4 intersex phenotypes, so with xx and XY there are indeed six distinct biological sexes, all with different genital configurations, hormone levels, and secondary sex characteristics. Humans made up the idea of biology and biological sexes and then spent thousands of years enacting violence on anyone who didn’t fit the two we pulled out of our asses to begin with.

It’s true that people who are neither men nor women aren’t necessarily androgynous but they definitely exist.

You can go sit with the climate change deniers and flat-earthers where you belong!

"Humans made up the idea of biology"

LMAO. Any field is made up as a study in itself. History as a field is created by humans, but things still happened in the past. The way we talk about observable phenomena is determined by language and classifications we've made up, but the phenomena exist outside of that. If we did not observe biological sex, there would still be some people capable of being pregnant and others only capable of rendering the first group pregnant.

DA

That's not how sexes work. Humans are not mushrooms; we don't have six different gamete types. There are two sexes that produce two kinds of functioning gametes, and then a very small percentage of people born with trisomy disorders or other congenital defects that affect their reproductive systems.

We don't say "Humans have two different limb phenotypes" because some people are born without arms.

This is all completely separate from how we define gender in society and how we should treat trans people (or intersex people, for that matter). Please get off my side and stop making it look like it doesn't understand science.

In German everything becomes feminine when pluralized.

That isn't strictly speaking true. The plural article looks like the singular feminine article, but the noun still keeps its gender, even if it's not easy to tell anymore just from the plural form.

(Gendered nouns are totally wacky and random, though. There's no rhyme of reason to most of it, and some nouns allow more than one possible gender. No, not just Nutella.)

/German coalie

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Offseason #1

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