coaltide | C.R.E.A.M

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2021

C.R.E.A.M

Coal ruins exchanges around me - spitey spitey fic y'all.

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DC

Yeah, as it is, it reads as "DNW: any attempt to write the POV character's narrative voice IC" to me, which seems pretty ??? I can't imagine trying to work around this DNW for something like Discworld or Jeeves and Wooster. Whereas something more specific like "DNW: footnotes" or similar more concrete aspects of the formatting and framing would make a lot more sense to me.

I mean, I can actually see it for something like Discworld or Jeeves? They have the kind of voice where someone trying to pastiche and failing can be like nails on a chalkboard, so something like "pterry's writing style is so distinct that only he can pull it off, I'd rather see something about the characters in your voice, writer" would be mildly wanky if someone is overly judgemental but not fundamentally bad?

if "more like canon, but poorly done" bugs someone enough that they have to make it an enforceable DNW, though, yuletide just might not be the exchange for them.

+1

There are some canons where getting the voice wrong is worse than just doing plain transparent prose.

And given yuletide there are some canons where you say "I love canon but if you give me actual cuneiform tablets I will also need an English prose translation"

Now I'm imagining someone uploading a photo of their clay tablet with the little reed strokes, and arguing with the mods about how to calculate the word count in the syllabary.

Is it bad that I want this for the Ea-Nasir contingent?

I am planning to treat the Ea-Nasir prompt... but I don't want to give someone unrequested cuneiform.

CYRT

Yes, I mean, sure, I don't really want anyone to give unrequested cuneiform, but I do love the idea of someone requesting and being gifted fic in cuneiform.

CYRT

Now this I can get behind!

(I've been chuckling over the phrase "unrequested cuneiform" for the past few minutes, so all around, well done everyone. :D)

But what if it’s canon-typical cuneiform? I think we have to assume it’s opt-out at that point!

The rules say it has to be in English but they don't say it has to be the Latin alphabet!

Who wants to be responsible for the "in English using Latin characters" rule change in 2022? Show of hands?

"Are Clay tablets opt in or opt out?" is not something I ever thought I would say but here we are. Consider my day brightened

C CYRT RYT Excellent point coalie. Is fic in cuneiform for a cuneiform fandom opt out? (I kid I kid, because TPTB know that if I received fic in the original language for some of my fandoms I would be SOL)

IIRC we've had Beowulf(? or something similar?) fic in the original at least once, and I think it squeaked in as being in English on a technicality.

(jk they did also provide a translation)

I think there was Tay Bridge fic in Latin last year or the year before. But I'm pretty sure the recipient has opted into that.

There's a tutorial that goes around Tumblr every year this season about how to do cuneiform tablet gingerbread, I wouldn't be surprised if someone does it for Yuletide eventually for either that or Gilgamesh.

Then make a canon-specific "DNW: fic that imitates the Wodehousian voice". It will turn off some writers, but so will "only imitate the canon voice if you can do it well", and that's not enforceable.

CYRT

Oh, yeah, poorly done pastiche can be pretty painful, but for me personally something that doesn't even attempt to capture that kind of distinctive narrative voice doesn't work as fic of the canon at all, no matter how good it is on any other level. So as a writer that DNW would be an unworkable insta-default for me, equivalent to "DNW: IC characters". (Which is exactly why I would never request or blindly offer these types of canons, because I'm far too wankily fussy about what works for me and I know it.)

na

I don't DNW pastiche, and I'm picky about character voices sounding right in dialogue, but in narration, the fic trying to imitate the "distinctive narrative voice" would probably make me balk too and I would never try that myself as a writer because I find it so annoying as a reader.

I just don't think there's any way for participants like you and participants like me or the pastiche DNWing person to match to each other and be happy with the outcome.

CYRT

Yeah. I think it's just a fundamental mismatch in what elements people see as necessary to be in place for it to still feel like fanfic of the canon.

I've read Discworld fic that made no attempt at the voice but captured the ship perfectly, and Discworld fic that captured the voice but screwed up everything else, and Discworld fic that attempted the voice and failed, and personally I'd take #1 out of those options. but ymmv.

I think how easy a pastiche DNW is to adhere to depends a little on the prompt. For example, if the request is for canon-setting Jeeves/Wooster slash, I’d freak out a little to get a DNW like that, because I wouldn’t know what to do instead.

However, there are people who request, say, Stiffy/Madeleine in that fandom. If I were into that ship, I would NOT want to read or write a pastiche. I don’t want a first person Wooster POV like canon, because I want what the fic to be focused on them, not outsider POV. I also don’t want a 1st person POV from Stiffy or Madeleine, because a) that isn’t actually a pastiche of the canon voice and b) trying to make that up from scratch that sounds like a recipe for cringeworthy badfic. So, in this case, getting a pastiche DNW would be a relief.

Even in the canon-setting Jeeves/Wooster slash case, saying what you DO want and why is way more helpful than a simple “DNW pastiche”. Is it because you want more worldbuilding than the books gave you? Would you love to know more about what it’s like to be a waiter at the Drones club? Or maybe you DO want outsider POV of the ship? Is it because you’re interested in exploring the ways in which Bertie can be a slightly unreliable narrator, and having a regular 3rd person narration might help that?

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C.R.E.A.M

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