The Coalies Are Back In Town

[coalcube]

Friday night they'll be dressed to kill
Down at Coaltide Bar'n'Grill
The receipts will flow and wank will spill
And if the coalies wanna fight, you better let 'em
That jukebox in the corner blastin' out my favorite song
The nights are getting longer, it won't be long
Won't be long 'til Yuletide comes
Now that the coalies are here again

Nominations: Mon 20 Sept to Thurs 30 Sept
Sign-ups: Fri 15 Oct to Sat 23 Oct
Assignments out by: Mon 25 Oct
Default deadline: Sat 11 Dec
Assignment deadline: Sat 18 Dec
Reveals: Sat 25 Dec

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Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I only care about characters so this doesn't impact me on a request or offer side.

However, I wonder if this means that given that authors can now offer worldbuilding (e.g. they offer Dave and Taylor and Worldbuilding), if I were to not request worldbuilding (e.g. I request Dave and Taylor) but was given a fic that was mostly about the worldbuilding (e.g the fic is a lot about how Dave and Taylors daily shifts are on the space station they work at and only a small portion is about their friendship or their internal thoughts as they pertain to themselves/each other), would the mods get me a PH during their "checks", or could I report the fic for mostly being about the world and not my requested characters and then be granted an EPH that is actually what I requested?

Because if so, then I would be happy to have this be a thing. If authors and recips can now specify they want something (worldbuilding, gen, ships, whatever) that means that not asking for it has more weight than "accidentally" tripping into that territory.

In the past worldbuilding-heavy gen where nothing happens got more of a pass since it technically involved the characters. If Worldbuilding becomes a thing, that kind of fic for character-only requests shouldn't be able to fly (since having it be all about characters and not doing much worldbuilding would be grounds for someone who only asked for Worldbuilding to get an EPH, right?) from my understanding of the rules as the mods lay them out.

[(Anonymous)]

I hope that's not the case, the fact that Yuletide has always been a fest where worldbuilding-heavy gen was fine as long as it included the requested characters is one of the good things about it.

[(Anonymous)]

Maybe, but it sounds to me like when someone writes "worldbuilding-heavy gen where nothing happens" for a shippy request, the author is just bad at writing, and no rule can remove that risk. Not everyone can write smut or really good romance, but if you offer characters, you should be able write a story that focuses on those characters' interactions.

Anyway, I wouldn't hold your breath for that this year - it sounds like the mods will be very requester-beware about how this shakes out. There might be some examples that emerge from this year of "too worldbuilding" "not worldbuilding enough" but I'd be surprised if the prevalence or lack of worldbuilding caused any EPHs.

[(Anonymous)]

I was talking about two characters as friends and not in a ship. Those of us who like gen can still get the dreaded nothing-happens genfic when it centers on worldbuilding rather than the characters we requested and how they interact together. There are a decent number of Yuletide participants who can't write character interactions despite signing up for a character-matching exchange!

I think those types should sign up for the Worldbuilding exchange rather than Yuletide. I would be happy if this development in Yuletide would mean giving it when it wasn't requested would get them in 'trouble' with the mods. If it doesn't, I don't see what giving them more freedom to miss the point of Yuletide-as-a-character-matching-exchange-for-small-fandoms is worth.

[(Anonymous)]

Sorry for misunderstanding you about gen vs ships. But I don't quite see how this is a problem of worldbuilding specifically rather than bad writing.

[(Anonymous)]

The difference would be that Worldbuilding being something you can nominate/request (or pointedly not request) changes it from bad writing to outright breaking the rules.

Right now a 1k fic that is primarily about the goingson of the ship with Dave and Taylor relegated to the background is within the rules. If worldbuilding becomes something you match on, you have a stronger case to go to the mods and say "this person wrote worldbuilding when I didn't request it" similar to how right now you can say "I asked for Dave and Taylor and this fic only has a one-line mention of Taylor, therefore it doesn't meet the spirit of my two-character request."

From my understanding of the new rules proposed, if someone only requested "Worldbuilding (Spaceshow)" and I wrote them a completely insular fic about Dave and Taylor having a conversation about how they're best friends (or wrote shipfic where they made out for 1k and I tossed in a line about how making out is a fun pastime on the spacestation), that would go against the requested Worldbuilding focus and the recip would be entitled to an EPH. Which should mean the opposite is true: if someone then writes a worldbuilding-heavy fic that neglects the characters, someone who didn't ask for Worldbuilding should be entitled to a fic that focuses on their characters.

If the mods will not be handling the rules in that way then I don't think it's fair. It would be like having a & and / exchange where the mods police what counts as too shippy for a & fic but you can outright turn the / request into a NOTP bashing party and they shrug. If mods won't be enforcing either side then why bother having it at all, may as well leave it to optional details like it's always been.

[(Anonymous)]

If people are going to take it like this, it sounds like a very good argument for why they shouldn't add worldbuilding matching.

[(Anonymous)]

You're treating it like either/or, when I doubt the mods will see it that way. Something can contain characters and worldbuilding, and can also contain neither. If the story has the characters performing actions, you're not going to get an EPH for your character-centred request.

You could try DNW-ing worldbuilding, but you'd probably just stress out much better writers, while the person who produced the work-shifts-on-a-space-ship/station piece you loathed would give you infodumping regardless.

[(Anonymous)]

That’s pretty much my argument. If they aren’t going to treat it as either/or, what is the point? The people who love (or hate) worldbuilding can’t guarantee they’ll get it and the writers who are keen to give it will give it regardless. All it does is create another tag they need to wrangle without solving the problems for the people who want or DNW it.

[(Anonymous)]

DC - it sounds like the problem here is not so much bad writing as that optional details are optional. You'll always be risking in an ODAO fest that you won't get a fic that focuses on exactly the aspects you want. And Yuletide has never had a rule that a story that matched on multiple characters has to focus on a relationship between them, just that they have to all play a major role in the story.